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Offline Thorn

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RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« on: December 03, 2006, 12:23:03 pm »
Topic changed to give RPG a place to show off his S1 modding as well

RPG's Current Work
Sonic 1 Expert Edition
Last modified on February 26

Thorn's Current Work
Moved to Hax0ring forum on TUSC.

Now opinons plz.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2007, 09:56:59 pm by Thorn »
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Offline Bilan

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Re: Trying some Sonic 2 modding, would like opinion plz
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2006, 02:11:21 pm »
Its awesome


oh wait I already told you this >_>
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Offline Thorn

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Re: Trying some Sonic 2 modding, would like opinion plz
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2006, 06:18:45 pm »
Okay, this post will constantly be edited as I make new releases.

First thing's first, please learn about the speedcap.  I've heard several complaints that could be resolved simply by people not pushing directions when going faster than the cap.  Forfeit control when in the air and over the cap.  I put up as many safety nets as I could for those instances, because accidents happen, but I'm not perfect.  I've only hacked for three weeks or so.

Cheats
14 continues: At options screen, elite (4 digits)
Level Select: At options screen, TSCs birthday, in same format as Naka's (4 digits)
All emeralds: At level select, Thorn's TSC join date in same format (4 digits)
Debug: At level select, RPG's TSC join date in same format (4 digits)

Bugs, or things people are talking/bitching about
  • The pit at the end of NA1 seems to be overwhelming people.  I'll see what I can do, but really, it's a simple bridge, or a spring jump.  And if you don't know how to control the speedcap on a spring, then don't take that route.
  • M1's section with the rising ceiling: if you go too early, you get crushed instantly.  That was a problem with the original Sonic 2, but I'll try to fix it.
  • PsyBorg told me of several sections where he went through walls in FF, but seeing as the level's huge, I couldn't follow his descriptions.  If anyone gives me a screenshot, I'll make invisible solidity on those walls.
  • Yes, the Special Stage farks up the game, as does becoming Super.  I plan to wipe the damned things in the end anyway, but for now, steer clear.

Keep the bugs coming.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 10:29:06 pm by Thorn »
<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed
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Offline Spinballwizard

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Re: Trying some Sonic 2 modding, would like opinion plz
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2006, 08:59:59 pm »
Just did a quick level. Didn't run into any glitches. 0'45 as RPG on NA1. >_>
<Tails> also "GET BLUE SPHERES" on a black-and-white TV remains the best special stage of all time

<Achlys> wat ave you done!
<Spinballwizard> apparently killed your h key

Offline Thorn

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2007, 06:33:17 pm »
Updates to both of our hacks in the first post.  Get 'em while they're hot.

RPG altered the palette for Star Light 1, and modified the layout a tiny bit.
I've added Robot Factory 1 to the level progression and make a working level (subject to change).  The palette for New Adventure 1 is different as well.
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Offline Bilan

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2007, 08:58:43 pm »
And now for whats going down wit ma hax0rz beetches.

ver 0.111

Green Hill, Marble, Labyrinth and Star Light all have edited palletes.
Green Hill 1, Marble 1, Labyrinth 1 and Labyrinth 2 and redesigned, only to be edited when bugs and messy spites are found.
Spring Yard 1 is a mess and is therefore going to be spruced up a fair bit.
Star Light 1, Green Hill 3 and Marble 3 are (very) partially hacked.
Level Select Menu has the level names, not all of them are final, most of those that arent should be pretty obvious to you <_<
I made the SEGA logo look awesome.


woot
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 10:30:51 pm by RPG »
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Offline Spinballwizard

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2007, 12:04:44 am »
RPG has ascension and squeezy jump syndrome. I like the palettes I've looked at though. (GH, M, L)

Didn't really notice the NA1 palette, and didn't get to RF yet. >_>

Though I am also working on hax, S2 like Thorn. (Whatever happened to lolhog anyways?) Tentative name is Sonic's Shadow, but that's very subject to change. I'm not even sure what I'm going to do with that. (If I can figure out how to port Knux's moves over, I might go Shadow/Rouge for something a little new, which would obviously bring about a name change.)

No demo yet, because frankly I haven't editted any levels yet.

I did do a few things, though, including:

Renaming levels I've started to work on palettes for (EHZ becomes "Dune Falls," CPZ is tentatively named "Nuclear Wessel," OOZ becomes "Iron Port" (after considering calling it Metal Harbor then remembering it's in SA2B), and ARZ becomes "Cool Atlantis" (which I may change to "Snow Atlantis). Others are in the works.)

Changed a few palettes: Dune Falls is pretty much done, Cool Atlantis is a bit on the bright side (might darken the plants, that seems to be the biggest problem), and I'm working on Iron Port at the moment (but the oil's a bitch).

...That's about it, and thus no demo at the moment. Maybe I'll give you a sneak peek when I start designing DF1. (I had a prototype design earlier that was about 50% complete, but then I accidentally corrupted the rom and lost the whole freakin' thing. Won't load in SonED. Maybe I should try to revive it in ESEII...

I do have a few screenshots so you can see the palette work though.


Dune Falls, pretty much complete. Kinda has a dry, wet feel. X)


Gee, I wonder what this is...? Too bright? Suggestions? (I think it's the plants...)


Another CA shot, for comparison with above- and underwater palettes. That's why I think it's the plants, because that shot doesn't make my eyes bleed.
<Tails> also "GET BLUE SPHERES" on a black-and-white TV remains the best special stage of all time

<Achlys> wat ave you done!
<Spinballwizard> apparently killed your h key

Offline Taillow

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2007, 02:21:37 am »
Gah!  The plants!  They burn!

I blame the color and brightness.  That light blue is one of the more difficult-to-handle colors, since it's that bright naturally.  Just make the shading end up darker.

     
Something like the one on the right, perhaps?  I don't know what your color restrictions are.  And I put them side by side for comparison
Still, the red clashes too much.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 02:29:55 am by Quartz »
Hi

Offline Crowbar

Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2007, 07:33:17 am »
I'd go even darker than that. You really, REALLY need good contrast between lights and shadows when working with pixels. Go look at Ice Cap: even on the snow (snow being something that's supposed to be pure white and flat to the point of causing snow-blindness), what shadows there are are quite distinct. Also, be careful about maximum saturation colours. They ARE used in the official pallettes (again, referring to IC, it seems all the colours in the background of the caves are maximum saturation), but when coupled with a lack of contrast they can create a real eyesore (e.g. the ones I mentioned in IC are pretty distinct from eachother, but the purples of the bricks in cool atlantis mostly look the same, not to mention the plants).



Here's what I came up with. Still not ideal. What concerns me most are how much the dark bricks stand out from the light ones (I think the dark purple actually should have the saturation lowered alot more thank I have, too), and the fact that the berries on the bushes are the only red things in the level palette, with everything else being very restricted to purple and blue. I dunno, personally I think maybe the whole palette needs a bit of a rethink...

Dune Falls looks nice though. Perhaps slightly darker shadows on the palm trees. Also the foreground grass kinda blends into the background.

I played a bit through RPG's and Thorn's hacks, and I remember some stages of Thorn's burning my eyes a bit (in particular the Hill Top hack), but I can't be bothered to boot it up again to see. >_> I'm not sure about the shiney Thorn fur or the pure-black RPG either (bear in mind the real palettes almost never use pure black or white).

Also, Thorn, you give a cheat for all Chaos Emeralds, but how do you propose for us to get the normally if you're gonna remove special stages?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 07:59:11 am by Crowbar »

Offline Thorn

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2007, 11:43:56 am »
...ouch, RPG and I just got burned.  Seriously.

Quote from: SBW
Didn't really notice the NA1 palette, and didn't get to RF yet. >_>
Quote from: Crowbar
I remember some stages of Thorn's burning my eyes a bit (in particular the Hill Top hack)

* Thorn flips the bird
...ouch, leave suggestions at least, don't just flat-out diss... *cries in corner*

Okay, here's shots.  If you've really got better ideas, feel free to crack them open in Paint and edit, then repost.

Confirmed Levels


Yes, it's bright, but I think eye-burning is a bit of a stretch.  I can fetch shots of worse S2 palettes.


The at-night EH might be overdone, but so is the sunset EH, the teal EH, the yellow EH... there's limited options, really.


Okay, I see where Crow is coming from.  However, a darker grey would come off as pretty much black, and a darker white, well... wouldn't look like snow.


I hope this is dark enough.  I only recolored the foreground so far.


Just Sky Chase and Wing Fortress at night, 'nuff said.




Tentative Levels





Also Crow you swapped RPG and I in your description.  And do you really want emeralds to be available outside of a cheat, a recolor with a Super form could be the death of TSC.  Nevertheless, I found the bug in the sound, and when I fix it I MIGHT leave Special Stages in.

RPG'll be posting with screens eventually, he also wants to see what to fix.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 06:57:21 pm by Thorn »
<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed
<RPGnutter> Thats how it works

Offline Bilan

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2007, 11:52:31 am »
Ver 0.2

Green Hill, Marble, Labyrinth, Scrap Brain and Star Light all have edited palletes.
Green Hill 1, Marble 1, Labyrinth 1 and Labyrinth 2, Scrap Brain 2, Marble 2 and Marble 3 redesigned, only to be edited when bugs and messy spites are found.
Spring Yard 1 is a mess and is therefore going to be spruced up a fair bit.
Star Light 1, Green Hill 3 are (very) partially hacked.
Level Select Menu has the level names, not all of them are final, most of those that arent should be pretty obvious to you <_<
I made the SEGA logo look awesome.

Current level order:

Lush Hill
Unnamed
Twilight Coaster
Neon Fort
Lost Cavern
Icy Lake
Whatever the fuck I called SY1
Lava Palace
Flaming Fjords
Magma Ruins
Final Zone

PIX





« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 01:31:15 pm by RPG »
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Offline Crowbar

Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2007, 06:19:50 pm »
Lol, Thorn, I'm me, not Quartz.

Level select is fine and I actually quite like NA.

Quote

I did abuse this a bit, but after playing around I can see it's problematic. Ultimately, you're limited by the fact that it's grass-shaped (rather than snow-shaped) and that shades of the grass are (it seems) shared by the trees in ways that are unfavourable. Anything I try just plain doesn't work, so I guess it'd be best to leave it as is unless you can find a more clever solution or something.

Robot Factory looks fine so far. Are you going to recolour the pipes as well as the plating?

Catwalk and Final Factory are okay, but they don't get the night-time feeling across like NA does. I think the foreground colours should be darker as they are in NA, as should (possibly) the highlights on the clouds in the background.

As for Starship, I think the blue you left in the pipes should be changed to match the brown.

The other three you posted look pretty solid, though perhaps the contrast of the grass in the AR recolour could be higher (it blend into the background a bit). Part of me wants to say the background of the CP recolour is too garish, but I can see what you're going for with it so it's fine.

Otherwise, just generally, I think more things as a whole need changing that don't seem to have been: some badniks, for instance,  are recoloured where others aren't, and Eggman's cape is different whereas the rest of him is the same.

As for RPG's, I think the blue for Lush Hill is a bit too saturated next to the green.

A subtle change, but I think it makes a difference. Possibly change the flowers' default yellow, too.

Neon Fort I think needs changes to the greys in the foreground (especially given what you changed the name to :P), and the shadows on the green Caterkillers should be darkened.

Lost Cavern/Icy Lake I feel needs dulling down above water.

Or maybe this.

Again, subtle, but put them side-by-side and I think you'll see the difference. The underwater pallette is pretty good, though, but perhaps just tone down that one bright blue that's on the top edge of those protruding bits to match the rest of it (I'd do an image but it's such a little thing).

Twilight Coaster is a bit...D: I think it's the sky rather than the pink FG. It just needs to be much darker (I can see it's a bit difficult though since the buildings are the same colour as the sky). When you get lower down things become a bit of a mess, too, what with the ugly green scaffolding and the blocks of black still remaining.

Best I could do, but notice that the windows share some colours with Sonic (visible on the right) which may well make things impossible.

Lava Wotsit looks sweet (though I'm not sure about all the slightly misplaced blocks and objects, but maybe you were going for that on purpose).

Offline Thorn

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2007, 06:54:06 pm »
Yeah, I noticed that I flipped Quartz the bird on accident.  I fixed that bit while before you posted, but for all I know maybe Quartz's feelings are still hurt.  I'll console him at a later time.... oh, just found a place where I left Quartz's name in.  Poor guy. *fixes*

The ultimate problem with Hill Top is that every utility swears it's Emerald Hill.  No matter what you see in SonED or ChaoSax or even just thinking in a hex editor, it never turns out.  If I was able to lay down real snow tiles without altering Emerald Hill I would.

Catwalk and FF palettes are a case of me getting frustrated getting the clouds to contrast properly, then leaving ChaoSax before touching the foreground.  I'll get back to that when I'm less likely to freak out over little things (read: after semester exams).  Same goes for Starship, except there some of the blue is also shared with the start flying by behind the stage.  Then again, a red star honestly wouldn't look that bad.

The Chemical Plant palette is going to be altered in the end because it's dangerously close to Mystic's CP palette from Sonic2Z.  I saw a similar AR palette elsewhere too but since I put so much work into it before I knew, I say fuck it.

Quote from: Crowbar... I mean it this time
Otherwise, just generally, I think more things as a whole need changing that don't seem to have been: some badniks, for instance,  are recoloured where others aren't, and Eggman's cape is different whereas the rest of him is the same.

Only thing I can say here is to look at the version number.  This is my first attempt at a hack, so I was thrilled just to be able to remodel the bridges in EH.  The badniks' colors stem from some being affected by the in-level palette more than others, as everything in AR changed in the blink of an eye.

Also I thank you for darkening RPG's palettes; there are some things I simply won't say to RPG when he's proud of his work, but now that I have support consider it said.

* Thorn unflips the bird
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Offline Bilan

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2007, 07:11:33 pm »
Crow I actually like your tweaks :o

Although I am glad you didnt tweak Marble because if you did I would've had to stab you. <_<

EDIT: Also the yellow on the flowers is shared by the colour of the rings, urk :X
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Offline Crowbar

Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2007, 07:15:23 pm »
Damn, stupid limited 16-bit pallettes. :(

Offline Thorn

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2007, 10:13:36 pm »
Hmm, I've made some more changes to GRA, but I'm not sure if I should stick them out...

First things first, Special Stages no longer crash the sound driver, yay.  Somehow I moved the glitch, so instead, playing Track 16 in the Sound Test now crashes the game *rolls eyes*.  At least now it doesn't impede gameplay.

Second thing is I completely fucked up Catwalk Zone.  I'm almost positive there's a really simple fix for this, but at the moment I can't find it on SSRG.  The game things it should be using Emerald Hill tiles for some reason, instead of Sky Chase tiles.  I'll search hacking forums tomorrow for an answer.

Third... well, you can snag this for yourself and find out.  After you get it and play around for a bit, tell me if it's worth keeping.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2007, 03:14:55 pm by Thorn »
<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed
<RPGnutter> Thats how it works

Offline Spinballwizard

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2007, 01:54:48 am »
I'll play it tomorrow, 'kay Thorn? (Hm... you didn't read EH tiles by accident, did you?)

Also: I kinda took Crowbar's advice on the now-renamed Snow Atlantis. (Title card and Level Select show it too.) I like the way it looks now, and it doesn't really burn the eyes (in my mind) anymore.


Note that I also changed the berries a bit. Call 'em boysenberries or something.


I fiddled with the dark bricks as well. Don't want 'em too light though, because that part of the palette also affects the mountains in the background.
<Tails> also "GET BLUE SPHERES" on a black-and-white TV remains the best special stage of all time

<Achlys> wat ave you done!
<Spinballwizard> apparently killed your h key

Offline Bilan

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2007, 06:16:40 pm »
Ver 0.3

3 Tweaked palletes, 1 tweaked level, enjoy.
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Offline Thorn

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2007, 06:18:30 pm »
SBW, no need to get that tentative one, I haev v0.3 for real.  First post.  Music editing galore, but still same busted things from tentative version (Catwalk, Track 16 are fucked).
<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed
<RPGnutter> Thats how it works

Offline Spinballwizard

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2007, 12:59:53 am »
Alright, I'm playing GRA 0.3b right now. (Hey, it's technically "beta," is it not?)

Mixed thoughts on the music. I like the edits for New Adventure, Robot Factory. Catwalk (despite the crappiness), and some of the unlreleased levels. Some of it could use work, though. (Mountainside hurts my ears, I'd suggest turning down the bass parts a bit. Same with the trumpet on Final Factory. Rather, a lot. Invincibility sounds almost like a warning in the beginning, and the spin dash sound is, sorry to say, too high pitched to be even remotely good.)

Also, I should note that water seems to have the same effect on Thorn's running speed as it does when Sonic has speed shoes, i.e. "I'm going back to the normal speedcap regardless of what's supposed to be happening kthx."
<Tails> also "GET BLUE SPHERES" on a black-and-white TV remains the best special stage of all time

<Achlys> wat ave you done!
<Spinballwizard> apparently killed your h key

Offline Thorn

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2007, 02:54:29 pm »
^All known problems.  You hit the source of the problem right on the money whether you realized it or not.  It's Sonic 2 Beta's sound driver.  Hence just like in Sonic 2 Beta, there's a nice, screechy spindash sound.  Matter of fact, the music for Final Factory is ripped right from Sonic 2 Beta with no changes whatsoever.  I don't like how loud some of the instruments are, I noticed this the instant I ripped it from S2Beta, but there's some that don't seem to want to change without farking up the rest of the music.  I'll be tweaking things as I go along.  Problems seem to lie with any music that has an extreme value anywhere (e.g. SonicQX measures things from -128 to 127, and any track with any pitch with absolute value of 110 or greater refuses to budge). For now, if it hurts your ears, don't wear headphones, and trigger finger on the volume control...

Also the plan with the water is to get rid of it entirely.
ProsCons
Well-known S2 speedcap bug goneA minority of people may want the water
No more wondering why you can't swim or hold your breath for a human amount of time
Who the fuck likes water levels anyway?
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Offline Super Azrael

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2007, 03:48:38 pm »
RPG does, the guys like Labyrinth for cryin' out loud!


KNUCKLES NICKED MY EMERALDS...

Offline Bilan

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2007, 06:12:04 pm »
Labyrinth is my favorite zone if it had a human form, preferably female, I would sex0r it.
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Offline Shadow Jacky

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2007, 01:12:29 am »
for the Sonic 1 hack:

on the Star Light stages you probably already know, but you cant activate any of the stairs by hitting them from the bottom.  In fact at the bottom near the middle, you can get stuck down there.

Scrap Brain 2 is really short

and the passing through walls just by pushing up against them in spots like if yuo get in a tight area or something...then again this might have been in the original games too.


for Thorns hack so far...the music is bleh.  Thats my only gripe so far.
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Offline Taillow

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2007, 04:22:58 am »
Yeah, I noticed that I flipped Quartz the bird on accident.  I fixed that bit while before you posted, but for all I know maybe Quartz's feelings are still hurt.  I'll console him at a later time.... oh, just found a place where I left Quartz's name in.  Poor guy. *fixes*
Well, good thing I didn't see it.

Also, Crowbar pinned things a lot better than I did.  I usually have to stumble across decent shades.
Hi

Offline sonicandamy

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2007, 12:48:47 pm »
Im kind of late on this, and you guys wrote to much for me to keep up so just answer this, is this sonic games that you guys have modified?if so, can I play it :)
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Offline Groudon

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2007, 02:33:36 pm »
Well, mr. hotlinker, check the first post.

Offline Thorn

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2007, 02:39:20 pm »
Im kind of late on this, and you guys wrote to much for me to keep up so just answer this, is this sonic games that you guys have modified?if so, can I play it :)

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Offline Bilan

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2007, 12:59:55 pm »
HAX

Quite, literally, here's v0.4

http://download.yousendit.com/922D66CD49B73FD7

Changes: One new level added to the mix, one level completely redesigned, one with minor tweaks, oh and a new pallete. And that new pallete is final. I am being deadly serious.

Without further ado;

Current level order:

Lush Hill
Jungle Canyon
Twilight Coaster
I Havent Named This One
Lucid Base
Neon Fort
Lost Cavern
Icy Lake
Lava Palace
Flaming Fjords
Magma Ruins
Onos

Enjoy~
Did you not think I had a mind?

Offline Bilan

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Re: RPG's S1 Modding and Thorn's S2 Modding Updates
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2007, 07:20:52 pm »
OMG DUBBLE PSOT!!!!!!111

Lucid Base is now fully edited.
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